Women these days, geez! Breaking all those traditions and crap!
Tuesday, August 18, 2009 at 03:10PM I'm growling at some of the unbelievable comments on this Elle article.
It's by a writer who did not change her name at marriage, and who references a study that suggests 70% of Americans think women should (I mentioned this study earlier). She points out some of the study's flaws, but I think the point is clear: when challenged, people have really strong feelings about this issue.
And I'd the say the majority of them think women should blindly follow this tradition, no questions asked, no thoughts given, no options explored. Just shut up and do it.
Some comments from the article:
Not taking his name is an insult to him.
-John
So is not taking her name an insult to her?
My wife and I talked about it for a little while, and here's how the conversation went: "I don't think I'm going to change my name." "Why not sweetie?" "It's just a stupid tradition that isn't really a big deal anymore. We've already lived together for 2 years, why should I have to change my name?" "Well, that's a good point. In fact, why have a wedding? It's just a tradition. Why get married, when we can just live together, since marriage is just a tradition nobody really needs." She got the point immediately.
As a man, why should I cave to cultural demands that my fiance finds appealing while she gets to take out the traditions she doesn't like? Think about how much grief a guy gets from society if he doesn't marry his live in girlfriend. "He is just stringing her along, what a jerk!" I don't have to get married at all, and my wife doesn't have to change her name. But I marry her because I love her and she cares about the tradition that I think is outdated. She takes my name because its part of that tradition. Picking and choosing the parts you like and don't like from an age old tradition screams pick and choose feminism. Hyphenated names get ridiculous. What happens when a daughter with the last name Smith-Johnson marries a boy who is a Jensen-O'Reilly?
-JP
JP, marriage is more than a tradition. It's a legal union between people. There are traditions within marriage and especially weddings, but traditions aren't rules or laws or legal requirements. People have options. You don't get married because it's tradition (or you probably shouldn't), you get married because you want to legally unite your life with someone else's. You can have different last names and still be married.
Why is this even an issue? Here is a message to all you liberal, ultra-feminist, man-hating women: SHUT THE F*** UP! Stop bitching and moaning over everything! Just shut the f*** up and get in the kitchen! It's like, all of you women out there are obviously BORED out of your pathetic minds and sit there with your K.D Lang poster on the wall and are just thinking of things to bitch about! Shut up!
And to the pathetic writer of the article, your husband is not a real man and I would place money that you two will be divorced in less than five years. No man will put up with that and certainly not forfeit their name to take their wife's. All you "men" out there that have or are doing it, GROW A PAIR AND USE THEM. All that bullsh** about "my identity" and marrying "later in my life and knowing who I am" are just excuses for: I'm a liberal bitch who hates men but am too afraid of coming out of the closet. You women are what is wrong with America today. You are the woman that cause men out there to laugh at us. Good job! You made an ass out of yourself again!
-Ashley
Note to the Giraffe: You're not a real man if you let me keep my last name. We will be divorced in less than five years. You should grow some balls and use them (for what exactly, I'm not sure). You should probably know I hate men, I'm a liberal bitch and I'm a closet lesbian. Also, I am what is wrong with America, so if you want to reconsider things between us, I understand.
I agree with John, why the hell did you get married at all if the only thing that was going to change is that now if you leave him he has to give you half a house or vice versa, You could just continue writing under the same name. (Pseudonym, ever heard of it?) It seems as though you are just doing this to cause some sort of stir and prove youself to be a feminist among your female readers.
-Hunter
Oh thank you Hunter. You know, I was thinking about getting married to a man I love in part because of all the benefits it brings. Like how I can see him in the hospital and get information on his medical condition if he's injured, we can join the Peace Corps together someday, we can more easily adopt children together which we both hope to do, we can use each others' employer-provided health insurance coverage and on and on. But then I thought wait, Hunter's right, I don't want to change my last name to his! Therefore, we're foregoing all those benefits and we're just going to not get married. Thank you for showing me such obvious logic!
I'm taking his name. I think you should either take your husband's name or hyphenate. You're joining two lives and should act as such. By keeping your own name, its like denying you are married. Its a lie. I'll be proud when I can be called, legally and forever, Mrs. Heskett.
-Jayme
I suppose then, future Mrs. Heskett, that your future husband will be living a lie and denying that he's married if he doesn't change or hyphenate his name? That's what you're implying right?
Fortunately there is some hope, as evidenced by several other commenters:
Guess I just don't understand the fuss. I married my wife because I love her and it had nothing to do with names. I didn't care if she took my last name or not and told her that either way, I'd be happy. She chose to use her maiden name as her middle name. No hyphens. There's so many problems in the world without getting ridiculous about something as minor as this.
-tchudson
Wow... every time I read the comments from people on the internet, I lose a little more faith in humanity. I am so disheartened by the venom that people have toward others. Give people some anonymity, and the hatred just boils over. To all of the folks who are so frightened of people breaking with tradition... why are you afraid? No one is making you hyphen your name, or take your wife's name....it doesn't affect your marriage at all. You are free to make your own choices. Other people's marriages have nothing to do with you...pay attention to your own marriage and maybe we can change the high divorce rate in this country.
The tradition we are considering here, the woman taking the man's last name, is a designation of property transfer from the father to the husband. Somehow we have lost the associated dowry and kept the name change. If you are okay with that, by all means carry on. But know that a woman taking a man's name was originally done to let everyone know who her new owner was...and children are also subject to patriarchal ownership. As for me, my husband took my name. I don't usually advertise this (or deny it, for that matter)... but I think it is relevant to this discussion. I'm not a "man-hating feminazi." We had our own unique situation where WE felt it was appropriate to do it that way...it was natural for us. He wasn't very attached to his last name (a stepfather's) and I was very attached to mine. He is secure enough to not be disrespected or demeaned by taking my name. I figure anyone who cares about what I do with my name, or what my husband does with his, has some serious insecurities.
-Emily
I'll keep it short: I'm a guy. My last name is Merritt. My wife's last name is Kamisasanuki. How could I possibly suggest covering up such a beautiful and historically rich heritage with my middle-of-the-road ancestry? Her grandfather has hand-crafted samurai swords in museums. People confuse me with shampoo and boy scout awards. Women should definitely keep their last names. We're no more relevant/important/special/etc.
-T
I left my own comment that (as of right now) hasn't shown up yet. It just reiterated what I've already written here several times, so I won't repeat it. But really, what is so very wrong with people thinking about it, discussing it with their partner and making a decision that makes sense for them as individuals, as a couple and as a family?
Reader Comments (9)
That makes my blood boil. I changed my name, but I definitely think it's something that's up to each person, and not something that should be legally required.
Personally, I do not feel that taking my husband's name was patriarchal transfer. I realize that was the history; I am deeply invested and educated in women's studies. But I DO feel that is not the case with many modern marriages. I totally understand why people want to keep their last names--and they by all means should if they want. The name transfer alone does not a marriage make.
Choice is the joy of feminism. I picked one choice. Some women pick another. THANK GOD! It's pretty awesome!
But people freak out when they realize women suddenly have choice.
Not because we're closet lesbians (though there's nothing wrong with lesbianism--a little nod to Seinfeld) or because we hate men, or whatever else they can think to fling out their mouths. It's because people are threatened by the fact that we have a little power--the power they feel they are entitled to, theirs and theirs alone. And we can keep making smart, powerful choices.
If wanting to have the choice to live our lives and have the same rights as anyone else, (including owning our own name) then consider me staring at my kd lang poster holding hands with you, Shan.
I completely agree with you. Although, I do not share your desire to keep my own last name, I understand your point of view and what your argument is. Different strokes for different folks. Every couple is different and should be allowed to make their own decision for what is best for them. What society thinks is irrelevant, and none of anyone elses darn business. Marriage and names are two different things. One has to do with unity, legal obligations and securities (as you pointed out), as well as devotion. Choosing to keep or change your name doesn't really have anything to do with those things. Keeping your name doesn't make you any more or less united or devoted to your loved one, and vice-versa. Changing your last name originated in the man's ownership of his wife (I now pronounce you MAN and wife), but that is not what changing your name means to everyone. In this wonderful world of freedom we live in, we each have the option to CHOOSE what we feel is best for ourselves. Really, choosing to change or keep your name is part of the freedom of speech (and identity).
It never ceases to amaze me the things that people decide to get so fired up about and the toxin that spews from their minds to their fingertips. Many comments appear to be uneducated, angry bouts of "You don't think my way so I'm going to challenge you by being hateful and demeaning." If a person is going to make a case, at least be prepared with researched, logical information for their reasoning instead of "Just because...it's tradition."
I know many people state ownership as a basis for tradition. I don't know as though that is how the tradition started. Surely that has been part of it in the past and maybe even exercised in some cultures today, but that is not the only piece included in the foundation of this tradition.
I went home last night and broached the subject with My Friend. His answer, in short, "Tradition." Trying to provoke more thought, I asked why? What tradition? Where does the tradition come from? Whose tradition is it? He had nothing. But at least it's thought provoking, if nothing else.
Good news, the dude and I--separate last names--have been married for EIGHT years. And my cousin and her husband--different last names--15 this September. What a bunch of fucking schmucks.
But here's the real question: why do read comments on the internet?
Because I wanted to leave my own comment supporting the author and I got sucked in. It was not a fun experience.
I just think it's weird that people think that some people want so much involvement in other people's marriages at all. Really, no one is asking them not to change their names or to marry someone of the same sex or not have a certain type of cake at the wedding. I just don't understand all the vitriol. Why so much need for involvement in other people's personal lives?
I will keep my name, or maybe hyphenate, but that's MY decision to make. It's not up to random strangers, and it shouldn't be.
It makes me so sad that this is an issue.
Is my marriage less valid because I didn't take my husband's name? Where is the logic in that? Why do people even care?
It's ... bizarre. People are so set on "tradition." Just because something is traditional doesn't mean that it's better. How can women support a tradition that is rooted in the subjugation of women? But no, I shouldn't say that because I honestly do support women who choose to take their husband's name. Just like I expect people to respect my choice to not take my husband's name.
What blows my mind is not the retarded things coming out of these posters' mouths. A few minutes of perusing the Internet will show that there are a lot of uneducated people out there with something to say.
No, what blows my mind is that with all the big issues arising in our country today, (health care, abortion, gay rights, etc.) THIS is what's boiling peoples' blood. Surely there have to be more important things to be discussing. If you're going to be a stupid nut-job, at least be a stupid nut-job about something that's really important.
(Not that a woman's rights aren't important, but this isn't an issue that is playing a major role in the immediate direction of our country right now. Now someone get this shovel out of my hands.)
This topic really brings out the crazy in people. I couldn't have agreed more with Emily's comment about how anonymity brings out hatred and venom. It is insane.
Who cares what someone else does if it makes them happy? Sheesh.